Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the next edition of the Work Healthy Podcast. I'm John Ryan, and today we're coming from Brazil. Now, what's the first thing you think of when you think of Brazil? Okay, it's probably football, but what's the second thing you think of when you think of Brazil? It's definitely samba and the carnival. So today, we're really lucky to have head of the School of Science, samba, Jimmy, Marcelo Chevron Pontes, who's going to share with us some of the secrets about the samba here in Sao Paulo. And we're going to relate them to organizations and map those learnings to leaders and how workplaces can learn what the samba does fantastically well. So we're going to talk about energy, heart and passion. We're going to talk about performance, innovation, feedback, discipline, teamwork, and the critical importance of fun and celebration to sustain individual commitment. And finally, the importance of diversity, inclusion, ownership and loyalty. So there's a lot in this. We have so much to learn. And honestly, leaders across organisations, they're the people who set the mood music for their organisation, and they can create a high performance rhythm that just flows through the business. So I first started by asking Jimmy to explain how samba and the whole carnival actually affects people.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Yeah, samba is.
The impact is in your heart, in your stomach. So we can.
When we are listening samba, listening and playing and singing, it's completely emotional and we can feel a different energy and this energy put our brain and most important, our soul in a different level.
[00:02:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:02:03] Speaker D: So I think that's really important because lots of things are logical and cognitive in this world and the like. And yes, as you said, classical music might make you calm down, but that's not what samba is designed to do. Samba is designed to get to your heart and get to your gut and bring a sense of energy and passion to what you do.
[00:02:24] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: And our logical, our cognitive level, we can manage, but we can imagine, we can manage.
Our emotional, our feelings, we just feel.
And this is important because we are, as human beings, we are not only logical, we are not only.
We don't think all the time, we feel all the time. And this is important.
[00:03:00] Speaker D: Absolutely. So one of the things about anybody who comes to Brazil to be able to experience the carnival must be fantastic.
And I'm learning from you today about the component parts of that, because it's not just the event that just happens, it's a whole year of preparation. Talk a little bit about the preparation that goes into the carnival.
[00:03:25] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:03:26] Speaker B: All the preparation during one year. So when a carnival finish, we have one week, ten days holiday, and then we start everything again.
But the preparation is an event.
It's very.
It's very good. It's very fun. It's very.
It's very important, the preparation.
And we spend all of year developing the teams, the music, the written, the choreography, everything.
And I think the most important, this is a work. This is a job that we must do together. It's a teamwork. It's a group of people. So when we met the other guys, it's a party.
We are celebrating all the time. And this celebration, it's very important.
It's good for health when you play, when you celebrate the important things of your life.
We don't believe that we came to this world just to. Just to work.
[00:05:03] Speaker D: Sure. But I mean, I think the important thing is that a lot of people are very goal focused, and it's all about the end goal. And what they don't realize is that life is about the journey.
It's now, it's today. It's not those things you want to achieve in the future. It's the moments that we have. Because that's all we have.
[00:05:23] Speaker E: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:05:24] Speaker D: The moments of now.
[00:05:25] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:05:26] Speaker D: And so I'm really interested in it. Just at the end of the day, the work and workplace is a show.
It's a performance.
That's what we have to do. But the amount of dedication and work that goes into this is really, really important. So talk to me a little bit about it, because there's some key sort of aspects about this. When I look at the Carnival and samba, what I see is a multitude of people from diverse backgrounds, from different skill sets. How do you manage to bring all of those talents together and actually develop something that is spectacular at the end?
[00:06:09] Speaker B: I don't know. This is a secret for us.
Important thing. We are here together because we like to be here.
We believe in this community, and we have the same goal, that we are here to do a job that we believe that we want. Nobody here is here because they are getting some money or things like that. We are here because we like.
[00:06:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: So we share this. This dream.
[00:06:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: So when we share a dream, it's much, much more easier.
[00:06:58] Speaker D: It's funny. I'll put it into organizational terms. Right. What you've actually created is a compelling employer brand.
[00:07:05] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:07:06] Speaker D: Right. Because people see the show and then they want to be part of what you've actually created. And there's a legacy there that you're building. So you've got a brand and they want to be part of that. And I think that's how you get your talent attraction. That's how you get the people to turn up and want to perform at their best.
[00:07:30] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: In summer school, we used to talk, changing the pronouns. It's not the sambasku, it's my sambasuku. I'm a part of this. So if I understand that it's a little piece of this, it's mine. The commitment is bigger.
And I think that this involvement, this feelings from the people and the organization, it's not only rational, it's emotional.
I'm a part of this, and I believe that the organizations, the company must develop this. But this development can't be just a speech, can't be just apart in the end of the year.
[00:08:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: As you said, it's a journey.
It must be every day.
[00:08:39] Speaker D: It's not an all hands every quarter.
It's an emotional moment every day.
One CEO I was speaking to, it always sat with me. He actually said, I always pretend that my employees are volunteers, and I treat them like, as if they're volunteering their time. So my job is to make them feel special, valued, and really feeling that they're contributing to something bigger than themselves. And that's what I see when I see these. All of these people who are part of the samba. They're volunteers, aren't they?
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Yeah, all of them.
All of that. When I came here today, I would listen to a radio.
I'm not saying the brand of the company, but the guy are talking about, well, our company now is getting more efficiency.
And we are very, very happy because to get this efficiency, we close a lot of stars and fire a lot of people.
But they are saying this with feeling very well.
[00:10:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: How can you expect how that the other guys, the other employees are be happy when you're saying that. Oh, I fire a lot of people.
[00:10:19] Speaker D: It's treating people like replaceable resources. It's just pawns in a game. And that's so wrong. I mean, that is the problem in workplaces. Where it goes wrong is it's about money and buying people's time and brains. And when you do that, you're introducing a transaction. And that's what's so different with samba. And the model to use for organizations is to try and connect with people's heart rather than just their minds and really get their soul and invest them. But. But what I also love is this is a, like, there's a lot of people involved here who, who maybe haven't had a great life they've maybe struggled and they're poor.
[00:11:02] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:11:02] Speaker D: But. But this is actually connecting them with something much bigger than themselves.
[00:11:07] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:11:07] Speaker B: Together we are stronger.
[00:11:10] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:11] Speaker B: Together we can help each other in different areas. So all of the samba school, they call it themselves as a community, the strict meaning of the world. Community.
[00:11:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:33] Speaker D: And what I love about the word community is it's coming together in unity.
[00:11:40] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:11:40] Speaker D: And that, to me, is a really powerful thing.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:44] Speaker D: And if you can take people, like, because what I see here is a lot of people who may not have even realized that they had talents, and suddenly you put them in an environment where. And it's called a samba school. So, like, you're learning, you're learning and you're developing your skills and your talents, and on the day, it's all about flow.
[00:12:08] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:12:08] Speaker D: These people are just the highest level of performance possible.
[00:12:13] Speaker E: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Because we practice during all year, but we are practicing giving our best.
I'm here to do my best.
I don't have the obligation to be here. I'm here because I want, and if I want, I'm gonna do my best. And if I learn, when I learn a different dance, choreography or playing drums, when I'm being better, better and better, it's very, very pleasure for me. I'm happy because I'm getting better.
So it's not as a suffer to do this, it's the opposite.
[00:13:08] Speaker D: But equally, it is hard work because the amount of time and effort and the word you used is discipline. And sometimes people have negative connotations of the word discipline, but in fact, discipline is great for the mind and the body and the soul and all that, particularly if it's aligned with a particular goal, which is the ultimate performance here.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
If we have discipline, we can achieve another step.
And when we achieve another step, a better step is a victory.
So discipline is not, it's not a negative thing. It's the opposite I'm trying to do. I'm learning and practice because I want to be better than I am.
[00:14:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: And it's not problem.
[00:14:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: I used to compare with some sports when you.
It's very common when you see.
[00:14:21] Speaker C: I.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Don'T know, a soccer player, a basketball player, when these guys did a beautiful goal, they're laughing, they're happy.
[00:14:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:37] Speaker B: And why, when we are doing a job in a company, we can't have the same feeling.
[00:14:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:48] Speaker D: That sense of purpose and contribution.
[00:14:52] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:14:53] Speaker D: And it's a celebration. That's, that's what I love. So the recognition is, is shared. The other thing that stands out for me, in terms of samba and the carnival is just the diversity.
So we talk about, like, diversity and inclusion and all that, but, like, it's living, it's breathing, it's. It's just there.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: It's just there.
[00:15:15] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: The December day, we start with the slaves. So when the slaves get got free, so they had to understand how bad is to be put in other place when they got free.
It's very, very easy to them to accept different people. So, assembly school, we can't be compared with the organization in terms of diversity, inclusion. We are miles and miles ahead.
[00:16:01] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:02] Speaker D: But that's. I love it because it's a celebration of that. But it's funny, you know, talking about slavery and the end of that in 1888. And for many people in workplaces, they feel like slaves.
[00:16:17] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:16:17] Speaker D: They feel trapped. They're there because they need the money, but they feel that somebody has robbed their time in their life. And I think that's. That's dangerous. I think what we see is that the best workplaces are actually at pains to give control back to people and give people autonomy.
[00:16:36] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:16:37] Speaker D: So that you let their skills and talents flourish, because that's. And that's, like, when I see this, you know, the fact that there's no hierarchy here. So talk to me a little bit about that. How. How do you decide who. Who calls the shots?
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Well, when you go to the first time in December school, you'll be very welcome.
This is our home.
Welcome to our home. It's an honor to us that you.
You decide to come here to visit, to know all of the things and be part of this.
There's no obstacles.
You just came here and be part of our group. Be part of.
We want you here and came here to help. We are.
We need help all the time.
[00:17:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:47] Speaker B: And we are very, very happy that you are here.
So we never put out of some people, we never fire.
There's no. We hire fire.
[00:18:06] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I love it. And it's been a huge success. And it gets bigger and bigger. I mean, give some of the. Just the numbers that you were talking about, the amount of people involved, what.
[00:18:21] Speaker B: It brings to Brazil, the audience in tv spending million. But here, just in Sao Paulo, we have 15 million people going to the streets to see the carnival, the groups, the samba school, and we are talking in 75,000 people working in this, all in the parades of carnival. The economy is $2 billion.
[00:19:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: Like that.
[00:19:02] Speaker D: That takes a lot of coordination.
[00:19:04] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:19:04] Speaker D: All those moving parts have to come together.
[00:19:07] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: We spend all the year preparation.
Yeah, it's. But it's very fun.
[00:19:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: We don't have to be afraid of.
[00:19:19] Speaker D: The word fun, but equally, there's a competition at the heart of it and that's a really high standard that people have to hit.
Talk a little bit about how they measure that.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
The concept behind of this is you guys have one year to prepare. So if you have one year, I expect the best.
[00:19:52] Speaker D: I expect no pressure.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
And, but this is something that. Move, move on.
Go ahead, try to do your best.
So if we compare the levels each year, we are doing something new, something different, because this is, this is what we show to the people and.
[00:20:27] Speaker D: The audience.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: The audience and the guys. We are giving our greater year. We are trying to develop new ideas because we know that the competition will be very, very hard.
[00:20:45] Speaker D: So innovation is at the core of samba. So how do you, how do you drive that innovation?
[00:20:52] Speaker B: That's.
Everybody has the right to give ideas.
We don't have a department of innovation. Everybody is in the, is, can give ideas and everybody give ideas because creativity is there.
[00:21:12] Speaker D: If it's the, the right environment.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:21:15] Speaker D: People will come up with great ideas.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: Everybody can think outside the box.
[00:21:20] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:21:21] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:21] Speaker D: And there's such creativity. You've just shown us some examples of what's, what's on show and it's brilliant. The bar has always been raised.
[00:21:31] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:21:32] Speaker D: The standard is always going up, but it's great to have a standard because one of the things that you said is that if anybody marks down in any way, straight away they have to say why.
[00:21:44] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:21:44] Speaker D: So there's a culture of feedback within this.
[00:21:49] Speaker E: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: It's not a secret how the people give this grade.
We have to show you.
I'm taking point one because of this.
So in the next year, you can bet this school will not do the same mistake again.
[00:22:24] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:25] Speaker D: So this is about high performance. It's a party, it's a celebration, it's a performance. But at the end of the day, it's being marked.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: I like very much the.
It's a play.
Nothing is more serious than a play.
And if you don't believe this, it's very simple to see this.
Just take a look in a child playing.
They don't have, they don't, they don't feel hungry and they don't pay attention to everything in the environment.
They are doing their best. They are completely concentrated, focused on their play.
So nothing more serious than the play.
Because we are playing.
It's serious. We are playing.
[00:23:30] Speaker D: It's serious fun. Yeah. So what do you think? Finally, leaders of organizations can learn from the samba that they could apply to their own organizations.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: First of all, teamwork is a concept, a kind of behavior that the company must develop.
But it's difficult to have a team work if you don't believe in the team.
The other thing I think is work can't be a problem.
What can be a solution?
I have to get more than money.
Money, salary. It's just a few parts. But the idea of get some dreams and have fun and be the sense of victory.
This is important for the organization. If you only pay near check, you're gonna have a job.
[00:24:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: Not a commitment.
[00:24:55] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:24:57] Speaker D: You can't buy my heart.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: You can buy my heart. That's brilliant.
[00:25:01] Speaker D: But, you know, I mean, like, I just think when I listen to the rhythm of the drums and you guys are explaining to me the difference between the Rio version of samba and the Savalo version, I never realized the difference, but I get it now.
But organizationally, when you join an organization, there is a rhythm that you get that sense of rhythm straight away the minute you walk in. It can be a mad, chaotic rhythm or it can be a calm, high performance rhythm. And there's mood music. And that mood music is oftentimes the CEO or the leadership team. They do. There's a mood music that goes around the organization. It's the climate, it's the culture, it's what's accepted and the like. And I think it's really important that people understand that and that they set the right rhythm for the organization with the right mood music.
And even the power of having, you know, in football teams have anthems.
Like, it's very powerful to actually come together under the power of music.
[00:26:08] Speaker B: Yeah. If we compare with soccer and marketing all the time, we are dreaming with the loyalty of our consumers.
What the hell is loyalty?
Loyalty is when you don't change the brand.
I don't know any brand who has more loyalty than the football teams.
You can change the brand of your computer, I cell phone, but you don't change the.
[00:26:51] Speaker D: The team that you love and you're changing the players.
[00:26:56] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:26:57] Speaker D: So the individual parts can be different. But I'm arsenal through, and the brothers are saying, till the day I die.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: Even when the team are not good, when they are losing, I still love him.
[00:27:16] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:17] Speaker D: It's that passion, isn't it? I love it. So, listen, thank you so much for explaining and educating me on Samba and continued success, because it's so, so important what you're doing and giving an opportunity for people to just unleash their talents sometimes, I'm sure talents they didn't even know they had, I think.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: Well, first of all, this is official invite to you come here and next year, I think it's in the first week of March.
[00:27:49] Speaker D: Wow.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: So came here and let with us.
[00:27:56] Speaker D: That would be fantastic.
[00:27:57] Speaker B: Let's be together with us to do a part of this. I think.
I don't think, I'm sure it will be unforgettable experience for you.
[00:28:10] Speaker D: Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's funny, you quoted somebody at the start and you said about craziness. Can you remember the quote you said? Do you want to share that? Because I think that would be a good way to end.
[00:28:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
The countries that we don't stop a little to celebrate, to play, to sing.
This is crazy. Yeah. The country who stopped to do this, it's a very, very huge sign of health and mental health.
[00:28:46] Speaker D: Yeah. So people, people outside who don't understand, they think you're crazy to stop the whole country and have a party for four days. But you know that it's crazy not to do that.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: I remember a guy that I really, really love.
He was a professor here in Brazil called Hubeng alves.
And he used to say, if you read the Bible in the right way to read, there is a right way to read the Bible.
And sometimes God talk about garden of delicious.
God sent us here to be happy.
Work just a little part of this.
So it's not a problem. It's not think if you're having pleasure, if you're delightful for the life in carnival.
[00:29:50] Speaker D: We're doing this, as we say, a healthy place to work. It's all about being healthy. And so many of the things that you do are about health. It's about purpose and passion. It's about energy, it's about strong mental health. It's about diversity and inclusion. It's also, by the way, physical. There's a huge element of physicality in this and the ability to be able to do that on a daily basis, you have to be healthy. And it's also building community and relationships which are at the core of health across the globe. So it's universal and it's wonderful you so much for, you know, sharing that with us today.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: I love to be part of this. And once again, your invite should come here. Fantastic. I'm waiting.
[00:30:40] Speaker D: Thank you so much. Cheers.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: So there you go. I think I'm gonna have to take up that really kind invitation to come back to Brazil in March next year to be part of the samba and the carnival. It just sounds so, so exciting.
Next up for us, we're off to Singapore to talk to Michael Jenkins, who is an expert at spotting and dealing with toxic people.
Until next time, work healthy.
